这是2007年美国民主党内部争取成为本党总统候选人的第15场辩论,在内华达州的拉斯维加斯举行,这也是希拉里和奥巴马第14次在辩论场过招。辩论双方在争论的议题上持一致意见,都认为必须采取全民健康保险,但他们又必须就此分出胜负。双方必须把对对手的回应时间限制在一分钟内。
美式发音 适合精读
November 15, 2007, Democratic Debate
Nevada, USA
Obama: What I’m absolutely convinced of is that right now we need a different kind of politics. Everywhere I go, all throughout Nevada, people are struggling with health care, people are working harder for less, they are having a tougher time saving, tougher time retiring, and part of the reason is because they don’t feel that Washington’s listening to them. And what I want to do in this campaign is make certain that we are breaking out of the 1)gridlock and 2)partisanship and the standard practices of Washington and actually start listening to the American people to get things done.
奥巴马:我绝对相信,现在我们国家需要一个不同的政府运作方式。我所到之处,包括整个内华达州,在医疗保健方面,人们的日子并不好过。人们工作更努力,但所得却少了。他们存钱更难,退休后的日子更难过,部分原因是由于他们觉得华盛顿政府并没有倾听他们的声音。我在这次竞选中所要做的是确保我们将要打破停滞僵局、党派偏见以及华盛顿的陈规,真正开始听取美国人民的意见,将事情做好。
Moderator: Alright. Senator Clinton, you wanna respond?
主持人:好的,克林顿议员,你要回应吗?
Clinton: Well, I hear what Senator Obama’s saying, and he talks a lot about stepping up and taking responsibility and taking strong positions, but when it came time to step up and decide whether or not he would support universal health care coverage, he chose not to do that. His plan would leave 15 million Americans out. That’s about the population of Nevada, Iowa, South Carolina and New Hampshire. I have a universal health care plan that covers everyone. I’ve been fighting this battle against the 3)special interests for more than 15 years, and I am proud to fight this battle. You know, we can have a different politics, but let’s not forget, here, that the people who we’re against are not going to be giving up without a fight. The Republicans are not going to 4)vacate the White House voluntarily. We have some big issues ahead of us and we need someone who is tested and ready to lead. I think that’s what my 5)candidacy offers.
克林顿:嗯,我注意到了奥巴马议员所说的话,他大量谈到加大力度、承担责任以及采用有力措施,但到了要加大力度,决定是否支持全民健康保险计划的时候,他却并没有那么做。一千五百万美国人被他的计划排除在外了,那大约是内华达州、衣阿华州、南卡罗来纳州和新罕布什尔州的人口总和。而我的全民健康保险计划覆盖了所有人。我已经为了这个计划与特殊利益集团斗争超过了十五年,我为参与了这场战斗而自豪。大家知道,我们可以有不同的政治运作方式,但不要忘记,现在,我们的对手不会不战而降,共和党人不会自愿地让出白宫。我们面前还有重要的问题要解决,我们需要一个经受了考验的、做好准备的领导人。我认为这正是我的竞选所具有的条件。
Moderator: Alright, Senator Obama.
主持人:好,奥巴马议员。
Obama: Well, let’s talk about…let’s talk about health care right now, because the fact of the matter is…the fact of the matter is that I do provide universal health care. The only difference between Senator Clinton’s health care plan and mine is that she thinks the problem for people without health care is that nobody has 6)mandated, forced them to get health care. That’s not what I’m seeing around Nevada. What I see are people who would love to have health care; they desperately want it. But the problem is they can’t afford it, which is why we have put forward legislation…we put forward a plan that makes sure that it is affordable to get health care that is as good as the health care that I have as a member of Congress. That’s what the American people are looking for, that’s what they deserve, and that’s why I intend to provide as President of the United States.
奥巴马:现在让我们来谈谈关于……谈谈关于健康保险。因为事实是……事实上我是提出了全民健康保险计划的。克林顿议员的保险计划与我的计划的不同之处仅在于,她认为那些人没有健康保险的原因在于没有人下令,强制规定他们去买健康保险。但这与我在内华达州的所见不符,我了解到的是人们都想有健康保险,他们非常想得到它,但问题是他们支付不起。因此我们提出了法案……我们提出了一个计划,确保人们买得起健康保险,而且是如我这个国会议员能享有的健康保险一样好。那是美国人民所期望的,那是他们所应得的,那也是我成为美国总统后准备要做的。
Clinton: Well, I cannot let that go unanswered. You know, the most important thing here is to 7)level with the American people. Senator Obama’s health care plan does not cover everyone. He starts with children, which is admirable. I helped to create the children’s health insurance program back in 1997. I’m totally committed to making sure every single child is covered. He does not mandate the kind of coverage that I do, and I provide a health care tax credit under my8)American Health Choices Plan so that every American will be able to afford the health care. I open up the congressional plan, but there is a big difference between Senator Obama and me. He starts from the 9)premise of not reaching universal health care.
克林顿:嗳,我不能对那样的问题不作回应。你们知道,这里面最重要的是对美国人民要坦诚。奥巴马议员的健康保险计划并不能覆盖每一个人。他以儿童健康保险为出发点,这令人钦佩。我在1997年就帮助建立儿童健康保险计划,我致力于确保每一个儿童都能得到保障。他的计划没有我的这种覆盖面广。而且在我的美国健康选择计划里提供了健康保险税收抵免,因此每个美国人都将负担得起健康保险。我启动了这个国会计划,但奥巴马议员与我之间存在着很大的差异。他的前提是不实行全民健康保险计划。
Moderator: Alright. One at a time….
主持人:好的,每次一个人发言……
Obama: I understand, but look, I’m not gonna…
奥巴马:我明白,但是,我并非要……
Moderator: Senator. Senator Obama, we’re gonna have a lot more on health care, but go ahead, go ahead.
主持人:议员,奥巴马议员,我们还会讨论更多健康保险问题的,请继续,请继续。
Obama: I will be very brief on this issue. Hillary states…states that she wants…she states that she wants to mandate health care coverage, but she’s not 10)garnishing peoples’ wages to make sure that they have it. She is…she is not…she is not enforcing this mandate, and I don’t think that the problem with the American people is that they are not being forced to get health care. (Moderator: Alright.) The problem is they can’t afford it, and that is why my plan provides the 11)mechanism to make sure that they can.
奥巴马:我会很简要地谈这个问题。希拉里表示……表示她想……她说她要推行健康保险全面覆盖,但她并不提高人民的收入去保证他们能得到健康保险。她……她没有……她并不实施全民保健的推行,我不认为美国人民面临的问题是没有人去强迫他们买健康保险。(主持人:好。)问题是他们支付不起保险的费用,这就是为什么我的计划要提供一个机制去确保他们能够买得起。
